Thoughts on man and his universe
Pro-down syndrome: a moral atrocity
Mimpy posted on the OO forum regarding an outrageous new movement: Pro-Down syndrome:
Summary: Down syndrome is a debilitating disease, which is characterized by an extra chromosome developed after conception. Doctors can test for this syndrome, but previously the test (amniocentesis) was found to increase the chances of miscarriage. Thus, only pregnant women over 35 were tested. Science has recently discovered a way to test for Down syndrome that inflicts no harm on the mother or baby. It makes sense now for every pregnant woman to be tested to see if her fetus is carrying the extra chromosome. Parents of children currently stricken with Down syndrome are unhappy with this technological advancement, however. Since 90% of woman already abort their pregnancies after discovering their fetuses will grow into babies with this disease, these parents (rightfully) suspect that with the new testing capabilities, there will be far less people with Down syndrome in the future. This worries them because then there won’t be many others like their own children. Tolerance, awareness, and funding will all decrease because there will be less people with Down syndrome. To reverse this, these parents are encouraging couples who find out their fetuses are carrying the 21st chromosome that being the parent of a child with Down syndrome isn’t that bad of an idea.
Essentially, these parents actually want more human beings with Down syndrome on the planet. Instead of trying to find a solution to this problem, they are encouraging others to produce beings that are not well suited for human life. They cannot enjoy to the same level the things that you and I enjoy, such as independence, strong romantic relationships, etc. These parents’ notion seems backward and downright evil to me. I don’t know anybody who would wish for a child with a disability. But these parents do. Their children suffer, so they want other children to suffer, as well…so their children will have friends and feel close to others like them. The person who is best adapted to life has the best chances of surviving. How anyone can want someone below normal is beyond me.
It is one thing to have a child born with a disability that you did not know about. At that point, you have a choice: you can either support the child yourself if you can (emotionally, monetarily, etc.) or you can give it up for adoption. But there is no way that anybody can actually be glad that their child is sub-normal. It can work out eventually, of course. But the initial desire for a less than perfect child (physically, at least) is impossible.
What is next? Should I get polio because kids in India have it and they might get lonely? It is a backwards and ridiculous idea.
Every child should be loved and valued – but a fetus is not a child until he or she is born – and what kind of monster do you have to be to want your children to suffer their entire life? Only the religious dogma behind the hypocritical “culture of life” is capable of sinking people to this level.
Update: I wrote a response to the comments on this post.
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#52 written by Chris Bode 4 years ago
David,
Your autobiography states you, “have been an advocate of individual rights.” People like you do as much for individual rights as the lynch mob did for racial equality. As a US soldier, I believe in the fact that you have every right to voice your opinions in what ever medium you choose. No matter how misguided. I too, enjoy the rights that I fight for, so now you get to hear my opinion; whiten your teeth, or at least brush them before you take a picture. I would think that such a successful, greedy capitalist like yourself could afford a better looking hooker to accompany you to your “I’m better than everyone else” conferences. I know you are the kind of guy that will have children, they will never live up to your standards, they will hate you, have to go to therapy, and you will die rich and alone, your kids will split your money and throw away your ashes. I feel sorry for you actually, because you will never feel the true love of anything, because you love yourself to much. Arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand.
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#53 written by L. Edwards 4 years ago
David,
I am a breeder of Olde Victorian Bulldogges. This breed resulted from an attempt to rid the bulldog breed of the various health problems it has (respiratory problems, joint issues, eye deformities, etc). Because of this selective breeding, our dogs have retained that wonderful bully look yet are healthy and live an expected 14 years. I think selective breeding is GREAT… for DOGS.
I got into dog breeding because I was suffering from infertility and needed something to fill that void. Thus, I myself am defective in a manner of speaking. I am a writer and feel that I live a very quality life. That said, I’ll admit that I have various deformities of the reproductive organs, deformities in the hip joints that can make walking painful at times, uncontrollable high blood pressure, TMJ, migraines that hit about 4 times a month, an old upper-back injury that acts up now and again, allergies to more foods and medications than there are hours in a day, and an in-grown toenail.
Poor me! I SUFFER daily and I should probably be put out of my misery due to my various imperfections, yet I’m only 38 and wonderfully happy! I don’t wish to depart this life just yet. I’m quite happy no-one tested me for my flaws prior to my birth and decided I was unfit to walk among the likes of you and your friends (for I am sure they are all perfect also).
Yet… I do wonder why you continuously seem to refer to abortion as a “cure” for chromosomal anomalies like Down Syndrome. After all, is death a cure for life?
When I finally did get pregnant, the ordeal almost cost me my life. How silly am I for listening to that internal voice that cried out for a baby of my own! My daughter was born at 30 weeks gestation (the average pregnancy running 40 weeks) and she was only 2 lbs. 7 oz. As small as she was, she was healthy. She did so well is was a few weeks before we knew she had Down Syndrome (I could not undergo an amniocenteses as I am fearful of needles and the mere thought made my blood pressure launch skyward like the Space Shuttle).
Well – as she was already BORN (and because I loved her dearly already), I felt I just couldn’t kill her – so I assume in your opinion my daughter is acceptable to your sensibilities in some small way? Don’t think for a minute that even if I had known she had Trisomy 21 that I would have aborted her. I am actually pro-life (I’d rather see someone abort an unwanted child than beat him/her to death at the age of two for wetting his/her pants) but this was NOT an UNWANTED child in any way. I had wanted this child for 11 years!
I assume if you are ever lucky enough to become a parent of a child as perfect as yourself, that you will invite your perfect friends and family members to come help stone your son or daughter to death after he/she has sustained a brain injury from a fall from your pedestal.
I simply say – Let he who is without sin cast the first stone (or was there someone else who said that before?). You must be telling the rest of us that you, yourself are without mental or physical fault. You are perfect? Good for you! Of course I’d also like to remind you that Vanity is also a sin. -
I have a wonderful little boy with Down syndrome and for you to try and tell everyone that you believe is willing to listen that all parents of children want more babies to be born with down syndrome is incorrect. Do not get me wrong I am not or will I ever agree with your ignorance. When I gave birth to Nicholas we had no idea that he had Down syndrome. Was I scared when they told me that there was a possibility that he Down syndrome, Of course I was, but would I change anything if I had known before he was born. Of course NOT. He is a amazing person with a wonderful future. He is just as much of a person as you and me. Just because he was born a little different, and apparently a much better person then you would be, does not make him any less of a person. Oh yeah and maybe you should do some research before you open you mouth and talk a bunch of crape because the very first mistake was saying that Down syndrome is a disease. It is not!!!!!!!!!! Maybe you should remove you foot out of your mouth. I pray everyday that my wonderful son will never have to meet a person that is so negative about something they know nothing about!!!!!!!!
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#55 written by Della 4 years ago
I’m 23 and I have a little girl with DS and she’s perfectly fine and infact more advanced in a lot of areas over kids her age because of all the extra support she has through early intervention. I hope you wrote this article for the shock value as it is in no way factual or credible in any other way. Let’s hope you don’t end up with a kid with Down Syndrome.
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#56 written by Myndie 4 years ago
What I find amusing is you keep saying “they cant have real jobs, bagging groceries and stuffing envelopes” How many “NORMAL” people bag groceries and stuff envelopes or clean up after others. A FUCKING LOT. In fact when I go out I mostly see normal people doing these jobs. Also Many people with ds graduate High school, and as to having babies thats typically the reason “normal” girls DONT graduate! You are one of those people whom get an idea in your head and no matter how many times other try to show you a different perspective you can’t pull your head out of your ass to see or hear it. NO parent wants their child to have a more difficult life, but shit happens and we deal with it. These children arent DISEASED, look up that word in the dictionary and why don’t you do some actual research on the subject.
What about autism? That affects 1 in every 150 births. Should they all be aborted as well? How many severly autistic people do YOU see working even the “crap” jobs. Or what about a baby born with AIDS(which is a disease) should they all just be killed too?
And for the guy that thought if it was put more eloquantly than it would make it better? UM NO!!!
Based on the incorrect facts and notions you seem to love spreading, it seems your IQ is sub-human and hell maby your momma shoulda aborted you!
The fact that women abort 90% of the time is due largely to the practice of DR’s now. They only offer outdated information and practices. WHICH IS WHY THERE IS A BILL WAITING TO BE PASSED NOW preventing that. True its no walk in the park but just because people are different doesn’t make them less. Your attitude puts you in line with Hitler, yall related by chance?
Pretty soon people will be aborting due to gender, eye, hair and skin color. Is that the kind of world we should be living in?
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#57 written by steve wedel 4 years ago
David you have it wrong.I have a three month old daugter with down syndrome.I did not wish this on her nor am I happy she has it,But she is what I have been given and she is the love of my life.The day after she was born there were 20= people at the hospital to see her.They all knew she had down syndrome but that didn’t matter to them because they saw what I saw.She is a beautiful healthy baby girl.Yes she is going to have some learning difficulties and yes she may not have an i.q. that is at the average level but I guarantee you she will be brought up to love and respect people.It really saddens me to see someone like yourself who hates another human being because they are not as intelligent as yourself.It is clear to me that you have had no interaction with down syndrome people, because if you did you would have a different perspective.I have never understood people like yourself who think because their I.Q. is higher then someone else that that makes you better.I am not a college educated man and I am a blue collar worker.this does not make me better or worse then anyone else.I am not a very religiouse man but I do believe in GOD and what he preaches.GOD ghave me this beautifull girl for a reason.In my mind GOD is the only one to give life and take it away.I hope someday you realise that the amount of money you have or the i.Q. you have is very triviel in this world.What matters most is the love you have and the love you are givven fom friends and familly.When you die your I.Q. and money wont be there.I realize you have a right to your opinion but your opinion is uneduacated and very hatefull.GOD bless you and may god save your soul.
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#58 written by Kimberly Wedel 4 years ago
I truly feel sorry for you. You have no idea what you are missing. On March 30th of this year I gave birth to a baby girl with Down syndrome. I didn’t know in advance because it wouldn’t have made a difference. I will admit I was upset when I found out. But once I held my beautiful daughter, Hailey, I fell in love with her. Just as I did 16 years earlier when I gave birth to my “normal” son. I too would love to see an end to Down syndrome but only because they find a cure or preventitive measures and not because these babies are aborted into extinction. Had I never had my daughter I might agree with some of what you say. I was a different person then. Hailey has changed me into a better person than I ever thought I could be. I had never known anyone with Down syndrome before. Since her birth have met a few. They are people just the same as you and me. There are so many advances being made today that weren’t available in the past. My daughter will have therapy that will help her a lot. You can’t compare an adult today with Down syndrome with the future adults. There is almost no limit to their potential. They go to college, they get jobs, they move into their own homes, they get married. I’m not sure why I’m wasting my time responding to someone as ignorant as you. I just feel the need to speak up for my daughter. Any woman faced with a diagnosis of Down syndrome should hold a baby with it before they make their decision. Many would probably have their child. Those that choose to abort don’t deserve to have a child as precious as mine. You can’t possibly know in advance what a joy they will bring to your life. I have a niece that is a genetic scientist. She is against aborting because of Down syndrome. She wants to counsel people on what to expect for the future and prepare them for life with a special needs child. Hopefully there are a lot more people like her in the world. There may just be hope for the future of mankind. I think you should see the movie Gattaca. That is were we are heading if we don’t change the way people like you think. I would say that I hope you someday have a child with Down syndrome but you don’t deserve to. Only exceptional people can be a parent to a child that some don’t consider “normal”.
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#59 written by Carrie 4 years ago
As a mother of a two month old son with Down syndrome, I am appaled. Although I would never have wished a child with a disability on any one, I do know that children with D.S. are angels sent directly from heaven. They do not know of hatred and intolerance like our dear David here.
I also have to say that there was another group of people who thought that those who were different and those with disabilities should be “taken care of”, they were called Nazi’s. How are your comments any different? You advocate the systematic disposal of a group of people different from you. People who you feel are inferior. Sick, sick, sick.
I would say that I wish that you could meet and love someone with Down syndrome, so that you can see just how wrong you are, but I would not want you to be blessed this much.
Shame on you.
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#61 written by nicole 4 years ago
ok so you suck and u must not be blessed to have a down syndrome child/adult in your life.. I have a nephew who is blessed with a littel somethig a extra and he will be abel to live a great life and he will be abel to enjoy the things that we all do ..he allready does and i will make sure that he enjoys any thing ellese that we do when he wants to do it ..
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#62 written by Valerie 4 years ago
It saddens and angers me that there are people in this world who think like you.
I have a 4 yr old son with Down Syndrome. Was I thrilled to learn this? No. Do I think he is doomed to a miserable life? No. He is a truly happy, healthy little boy who enjoys life tremendously, and I am very grateful to have him.
As for his intelligence, he was reading some words at the age of 2. At 3 years old, he was attending a preschool class with all 4 yr olds. He knew his upper and lower case letters and the sounds they made, could count to 10, and knew all his colors. This was actually MORE than the rest of the class knew. But I would never presume that the other children should be euthenized for not knowing as much as him!
Before you start making your asinine comments, you should really get to know some people with Down Syndrome. You would realize they do not have unhappy, miserable lives, and they are not so different than the rest of us.
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#63 written by abraka 4 years ago
Dear Valerie & others,
It is wonderful that your son is healthy, happy and intelligent …and I am sure, you do your best to make him happy…hope your enthusiasm going to last a lifetime…you’ll need it.
However, the majority of children with Down syndrome will never – ever – gets there when your son already is. AND the majority of the parents just would not be able to take care of them as long as they live…
My husband has a son with Down syndrome, who is 20 years old. He doesn’t enjoy anything but watching TV and his food. He can barely talk, he does not read, does not write. It happened on a daily basis in the past and still happens that he touches (and playing with) himself in front of everybody lying on the living room floor. He goes to the bathroom WHEN one of his sisters is taking a shower. He doesn’t leave the girls alone when their friends come over…Girls would never EVER say it, but they are really embarrased sometimes because of his behavior…He is also…how can I say it…is very lazy. He could help with small things if he wanted, but he doesnt’ want. I used to try to involve him in housework or yard work, take him for walks etc…but I got tired and I gave it up. He is just sitting around most of the time looking very bored and miserable. Especially, when he can’t have his TV on all day long…I have a 3 years old son and I don’t like if the TV is on during “play hours” (I let my son watch TV one hour in the morning and one hour in the evening, but I wish he wouldn’t watch TV at all). He doesn’t want to brush teeth or take showers. He doesn’t flash the toilet nor he wipes his butt. He doesn’t even close the door when he goes to the bathroom. See, this boy will never be able to live by himself, not even in semi-independent settings…now and for ever he is going to live with mom, who will never have a life. In a hard moment (which she has, plenty) she can’t think of “oh, it will, too, pass” because, in her case, you see, it will NEVER pass. By the way, she is a very nice AND patient person, a 57 years old stay-at-home-mom (she couldn’t work anyway, her life is, literally, his son), she never complains, but she is not happy and this poor guy, no, he is not happy either. Nor his father or his sisters…these two girls grew up not getting enough attention from their mother, I know this for a fact, they told me…I know, it is nobody’s fault! This boy needed EVERYTHING she has got…
When they are here with me, in summer, I try to do my best to make him happy and, at the same time, keep my sanity. Not easy…Especially, because I have a three year old son, and he is just in the “terrible twos”. Well, in his case, it will, at least, pass…
I also had a cousin with Down syndrome.. He didn’t do any better either. Now he is 40 years old with thyroid and heart problems, still living with parents, never learnt to read, count or write. He used to live with his grandma, and they were quite happy together, but grandma passed away a couple of years ago and now he is severely depressed…
When I got pregnant 3 years ago, it was no question that I wanted to get tested as soon as possible… I understand, you must raise your children with all your love, no matter if they are healthy or not. But if you can have a test? If you can have a choice???
It would never even be an issue in Europe… just SO common sense..to give a birth only to a healthy child if you have a choice. By the way, science came from God too, not just children…
(I was not being “negative”. I only tried to talk about the facts from my PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. Cruel, might have I sounded, it was not my intention. I don’t like, however, the usual sugar-coating which is going on many subjects, like this, in America. I am not an american, I came from Europe a few years ago. So please forgive me if my style was “too harsh”; I am just not willing to say “green” when I really see “blue”.)
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#64 written by Melanie 4 years ago
Your birth country explains a lot. The value of human life in substandard countries is much lower than what we all know and respect, here in the good ol’ USofA. And, let me say that you may have graduated from TAMU, but you are NO AGGIE, pal. There’s not anyone in BCS that would claim your ass.
It is true that many children born with DS suffer substandard existences later on because of their economic status. But, so do 90% of inner-city children. So, here’s a test for pregnant mommies. Question: Do you live inside the city limits of a metropolitan area that has a half-million people or more? If so, abort immediately. That’s how ludicrous you are being.
I have a daughter with DS who is five years old. She has a trust fund and will start Kindergarten on time because she has met all of her intellectual benchmarks. Hmmmm…. kinda blows holes in your financial and intellectual reasonings.
God, it hurts my heart to know that you went to TAMU, which is more than just a superior educational institution — it’s the spirit of Aggieland, man. And, you didn’t absorb a drop of it while you were there. By the way, you and your lovely lady in the picture on your bio are perfectly matched.
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#66 written by Proudmama2aboywithDS 4 years ago
I just want to say as a mother of a son with DS and a women that works with adults with Ds that it is very sad that you really have rocks for brains, DS is NOT a disease and people do not suffer from it, you disgust me. And as for Abrakas response I am also very truly sorry for you and the way you feel for your step-son, I mean your husbands son as you put it. In My personal experience some people with DS don’t talk or learnt anything as you put it. But that has also been the minority, most of the individuals that I work with have jobs, boyfriends,girlfriends and friends, they participate in the things that all people do, so again I am sorry if your family is unhappy with him, I just hope that you don’t let him read this, I would be unhappy too if my family didnt want me.
People with DS should be treasured and treated just as any other person would be, Educate yourselves,you might just enjoy the blessings that surround you! -
#67 written by Dana 4 years ago
You know i found out when i was 5 mo pregnant with my daughter that she has Down syndrome. it didnt make a bit of difference to me, she is my lil girl and i was bringing her into this world. My daughter Stormy is now 19mo old. She is one of the best things in my life. When i found out i had so many people tell me not to bring her into this world and let me tell you what everyone one of them are no EATING their words. Children with Down Syndrome are wonderful, caring, loving and happy children. You talk as if they are aliens or something well here is a news flash. THE ARE HUMAN TOO AND THEY HAVE FEELINGS JUST LIKE THE REST OF US. So why dont you take ur dumbass bullshit and shove it. Back off and let people make their choice on their own. REMEMBER CHILDREN TURN INTO ADULTS WEITHER THEY HAVE DOWN SYNDROME OR NOT. ITS HOW THEY ARE RAISED AND LOVED THAT HELPS THEM LEARN TO BE WHO THEY ARE. MY GUESS UR LIFE GROWING UP SUCKED CAUSE UR A HEARTLESS ASSHOLE
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#68 written by Jennifer 4 years ago
My 7 month old son with Down Syndrome is the biggest blessing I have ever known in my life. I wouldn’t change him for all the money in the world. People with the attitude of “david” will never and enjoy one of God’s greatest gifts and rightfully so.
You say “How anyone can want someone below normal is beyond me.” My son is totally normal and perfect in my eyes. And after looking at your photo I say how anyone can want someone with yellow teeth is beyond me. Blah on you.
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#69 written by Ashley 3 years ago
David,
I can’t say I disagree with you more. I do however agree that it is sorry for any one to “want” a child to have down syndrome or any other handicap for that matter, BUT they are handling the matter the way they know how and loving their child the way they know how. I do, however, believe that abortion because of a handicap is sad to say the least. My mother was pregnant with triplets at one point in time, she was told to abort baby A because he was the weakest out of A, B, and C. Doctors told her that if she carried all three babies she could potentionally die of heath risk factors. My mother, (not being a religious person) couldn’t chance taking the ‘future’ life of her children away with her own will, so she chose to do nothing. Two weeks later, baby C was misscarried. Babies A and B were born at 24 weeks gestation and sadly after one hour of life baby B took her last breath. Baby A was supposed to be the aborted baby, BUT is 9 years old today and very healthy! He was supposed to have down syndrome, epilepsy, cerebal palsy and be blinde and deaf (according to doctors) BUT he is alive and HEALTHY! Truth is, it is everyone’s personal decision, BUT you will love your child no matter how healthy or unhealthy they are, but who would want to take the risk of killing their child when sooo many times doctors are wrong, or they are right and GOD or nature (as some believe) steps in and reverses the cycle of destruction and the baby is completely healthy!
Life is right to all living things, just as a seed isn’t a flower yet, but with inplantation and nutrients it become ALIVE with roots and then sprigs up into a flower, life began when the seed sprouted and began growing within the ground, not when it started showing it’s greenery on top of the dirt. -
#70 written by Dionna Standridge 3 years ago
David, I too have the gut feeling that you do not have a child with downs. Nor have you ever spent much, if any, with a person with downs. So your case of ignorence is easy to over look. At first I only wanted to introduce you to “People First” language.The correct way to address citizens with Downs Syndrome is… “child or person with downs” Not “downs child or downs person” It’s a bit difficult to be a diagnosis befor being a person. Then, after reading some of this, I have decided to put in my two cents. I am the PROUD GRANDMOTHER of 8 grandchildren. The 6th happens to have downs syndrome.And I can tell you this, he is the light of his whole family’s life. Having him has strenghtened our whole family. He is a true blessing. I feel that it a true shame that you have not had the wonderful experience of getting to know someone with downs. If you only had the ability of having an open, mind long enough to allow someone with downs to show you the way, I believe that you would see things much differently. Good Luck in Life
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#71 written by Jeff Credille 3 years ago
David, I googled down syndrome because my wife and I just recently had a BEAUTIFUL baby girl that just happens to have down syndrome. I stumbled across your article and I am shocked by what you had to say in your article. What is your suggestion to the family of someone that becomes metally disabled due to an accident? Abortion is murder and there is NO WAY that anyone can justify that it is not. If the “mass” inside of a female is not a living being then why does a procedure have to be done to “get rid” of it? Life is precious and the blessings that we have already received from our baby is unmeasurable. I THANK GOD that HE saw fit to bless us with our beautiful baby that just happens to have down syndrome. GOOD LUCK to YOU in your “normal world”.
JEFF -
Only the ignorant and uniformed can spout off as you do. I am saddened that you do not truly understand the worth of a soul. I hope that one day you will allow yourself to see past your prejudices and see individuals with Down Syndrome for what they are instead of what you mistakenly see them to be. Oh, you have so much to learn!
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#73 written by Mom of an angel 2 years ago
Wow! I think that you are not well suited for human life. By reading your post I would say that your intelligence is below normal. If a pill were available to make my daughters down syndrome go away…I would not give it to her, I would not change who she is! And she wouldn’t change who she is either. She loves her life.
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David, I’m a 2nd grade school teacher. I have a class of children with different abilities and learning disabilities. I teach at a low income school and I’ve seen many unhappy children. Families aren’t perfect and unfortunately children come to the clasroom with different experiences and difficulties. I’ve seen children with DS have the most supportive and encouraging parents and families, unlike some ” normal” children. What is normal? My students with involved and supportive families are the most successful. The students I have in families with drug abuse, poverty, and incarceration are truly unhappy and don’t perform well in school. As I see it, life is not perfect, no matter how hard we try to make it so, it will never be. We just make the best of it and strive to bring happiness to it. DS kids are just happy and bring joy to those around them. Maybe they just don’t know any different. What’s so bad about that? I believe we are happiest when we step outside of ourselves and help others, not thinking about ourselves and our own happiness. Maybe this is why these kind of children exist, they create selflessness in their caretakers, creating a caring segment of society that accepts people for who they are.